no way A victory fanfare welcomes the listeners. Night ScienceA podcast hosted by longtime friends and colleagues Itai YanaiA cancer geneticist at New York University, Martin LercherHeinrich Heine, theoretical biophysicist at the University of Düsseldorf. The two met in the early 2000s while working on the genome project at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory, and reunited ten years later to write a book in 2016. While brainstorming their second book, they realized that no one was talking about the backstory of where hypotheses come from, what they call the “night science.”
From this inspiration, they created the Night Science podcast in 2021. The guests are prominent researchers in fields such as biochemistry, developmental biology, neuroscience, and computational biology, but Yanai and Lercher break away from the status quo of scientific conversation to delve into the hidden, creative side of night science. They hope the new episodes will give audiences a refreshing look at how researchers generate ideas, where inspiration comes from, and how projects evolve—critical skills that often go untaught.
Martin Lercher (left) and Itai Yanai (right) co-host Night Science, a podcast that tells untold stories about the creative scientific process.
Itai Yanai
What inspired you to start the Night Science podcast?
Yanai: There is a kind of stigma, bias, or cultural norm around discussing this creative aspect of the research process. I think it’s because science is very different from art, and we shouldn’t be acknowledging things like inspiration or wild ideas for “night science.” We need to focus more on “day science” with testable hypotheses and solid experiments, but that’s only half the process. We’re trying to make a cultural shift to embrace the whole process of day and night science.
How do you select your podcast guests, and what impact does that have on your audience?
Yanai: We have chosen guests with unique perspectives that will give our listeners a fresh look at these highly successful individuals. Many of them have achieved the highest awards in life, and here they talk about their emotions and failures. For example, we spoke with a molecular biologist. Bonnie BaslerI’m a systems biologist from Princeton University. Our AlonAt the Weizmann Institute of Science, we talked about asking “why” and getting the beginner’s mind to focus on research. It’s really important for people to hear these different perspectives. I think a lot of scientists these days fall into the trap of thinking that science only exists during the day.
Lercher: It’s not that we think day science is inferior. It’s day science that ultimately drives science because if you test a hypothesis, you get a grant. But you still have to generate hypotheses, and there’s an imbalance in the whole culture of how science is done. Another aspect is that it’s not like people are hiding this secret knowledge. Many of our guests have said that this is the first time they’ve thought about their creative process, how they do science, how they get ideas. It’s interesting to hear how important conversation is for young scientists who may only have a vague idea of how science is done, and how projects evolve.
What are the main lessons of knight science?
Every project has to have a crisis where the project fundamentally changes because that means you’ve learned something new. For me, science is just this huge adventure where things change.
– Yanai Itai, New York University
Lercher: There’s an important metaphor to the creative process. It’s not very useful for everyday science, but it’s invaluable for generating random ideas that might lead somewhere. When I spoke with Bassler, we discussed how anthropomorphic questions like “Why do bacterial cells do such stupid things?” or “What are those proteins trying to do with DNA?” might not make scientific sense, but they can be intuitive and powerful tools.
Yanai: I loved Alon’s concept of temporal ignorance. Science should be the antithesis of ignorance, but he embraced a naive and refreshing perspective. When you’re going into a new field, not knowing everything can be a superpower. First, write down your ideas, even if they seem ignorant. Then, check everything out. Some ideas can be groundbreaking, but if you had read the entire field from the beginning, you wouldn’t have come up with them. You don’t hear people talking about it in science, but it’s very important.
What are some of your own creative scientific processes?
Lercher: The core of my creative process is speaking. How to speak and why to speak. I come up with ideas when I talk to people in my group and collaborators. It may not seem like an interesting trick, because it’s something that everyone does. But it’s important to be very open and positive. Even if it’s a stupid idea, there may be a seed in it that will lead to something interesting.
Yanai: The way I do my research is kind of like the Stone Soup story, except instead of soup, I bring a Margherita pizza. It’s not really anything special, but it still looks good. I take the pizza to Martin, and he might say, “How about adding mushrooms?” Then someone else might come along and suggest adding bell peppers to make it even better. I try to be open-minded and allow the project to change. What will my pizza evolve into? Every project has to have a crisis where the project fundamentally changes, because that means you’ve learned something new. For me, science is just a huge adventure where things change.
What other resources does Night Science provide to the community?
Lercher: We hold student workshops based primarily on editorials written by Itai and I. We try to give young scientists the knack of the creative process. This is something experienced scientists do all the time, without even thinking about it, but no one teaches it clearly. We also Website A place for people interested in teaching creative processes to register, connect, and exchange materials. We hope to be a hub for this community.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
